Neil_Ormston Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I thought it would be useful to define the scope of matches for inclusion in this phase of our work. I'd appreciate any thoughts, comments, or questions on points of clarity on the below. Club matches (first-class): Games from matches & tournaments recognised by the RFL/NU, involving teams from member clubs. Matches & tournaments are recognised when the RFL/NU played a part in the organisation of them, or selection of the teams to participate. The status of the match at the time of kick-off determines its inclusion, regardless of whether the match or tournament concluded; thus games which were abandoned, or later expunged or ordered to be replayed are included. For tournaments involving both member clubs and non-member clubs (e.g. the Challenge Cup & National League Cup), rounds/groups involving exclusively non-member clubs are not classified as 'first-class' and are therefore excluded; for any rounds/groups involving member clubs all games are included, regardless of a club's status, with the same also applying for subsequent rounds. Representative matches (first-class): Games from matches & tournaments recognised by the RFL/NU, involving teams organised and selected by the RFL/NU or its member clubs, leagues, counties and countries of the home nations (including Ireland), except where these involve a member club (as these are classified as a 'club match'). The status of the match at the time of kick-off determines its inclusion, regardless of whether the match or tournament concluded; thus games which were abandoned, or later expunged or ordered to be replayed are included. For the avoidance of doubt, matches played in during World War One after the close of the 1914/5 seasons are NOT recognised, following the ruling by the Northern Union that games should only be played on a friendly basis until the cessation of hostilities; organised games resumed in early 1919. In contrast for the duration of World War Two matches are recognised (subject to meeting the above criteria), due to the continuation of league & county committees to approve fixtures and rule on matters of dispute (although certain regulations were relaxed to facilitate the continuation of games). For more information on the Rugby League Record Keepers' Club please visit our official website at www.rugbyleaguerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 So to clarify, if a Challenge Cup game involves two amateur side it is nit included, but a professional side vs amateur is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Ah - hadn't got the nuances around all-amateur ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev p Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 i think you find in all sports, international friendlies count for a "cap". so internationals count as a first class game, club friendlies do not. QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I guess the games against the 'home' international team might have been considered more as a trial game and not fully competitive? Tour games are a bit odd generally - often GB squad players wouldn't play for their clubs against tourists, different rules for scoring and subs from normal domestic games have been quite common as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 The name of that side probably gives a clue to the fact it wasn't treated as a regular first class game. Leeds played a "GB XIII" for David Ward's testimonial in 1982 (I think). That GB side was pretty strong (they won 22-21 in a good game) but there was no suggestion it was anything other than a trial game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 To clarify another specific example, can anyone confirm that Auckland's 1987 tour games were classed as first class? For Leeds it's important in terms of records because it featured Garry Schofield's debut (scored 2 tries), and also lesser lights Darren Stevens and Martyn Smithson - it was Smithson's only ever first team game so from a Club # perspective its important as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said: To clarify another specific example, can anyone confirm that Auckland's 1987 tour games were classed as first class? For Leeds it's important in terms of records because it featured Garry Schofield's debut (scored 2 tries), and also lesser lights Darren Stevens and Martyn Smithson - it was Smithson's only ever first team game so from a Club # perspective its important as well. Yes. Auckland tour 1987 were all first class fixtures https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Thanks Mark. I had trouble getting the Auckland teamlist vs Leeds - ended up getting it via the Warriors. That was yet another violent tour game, probably because a number of players from both sides had played in the Leeds v NZ tour game two years earlier, which was the most violent match I've ever seen live. Both Auckland 1987 and Queensland 1983 tours were 'first class'. Are there any other similar tours which Leeds weren't involved in which also count as first class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_Ormston Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said: Thanks Mark. I had trouble getting the Auckland teamlist vs Leeds - ended up getting it via the Warriors. That was yet another violent tour game, probably because a number of players from both sides had played in the Leeds v NZ tour game two years earlier, which was the most violent match I've ever seen live. Both Auckland 1987 and Queensland 1983 tours were 'first class'. Are there any other similar tours which Leeds weren't involved in which also count as first class? Ignoring Australia, Australasia & New Zealand tours, and a few more recent international sides that came over for various tournaments,, there's the following: - Queensland 1983-84 - PNG 1987-88 - Auckland 1987-88 - France 1988-89 - PNG 1991-92 (didn't play club teams) - New Zealand Residents 2003 A total of 14 first-class games involving clubs across these tours. For info I've got home and away teams for all these matches. For more information on the Rugby League Record Keepers' Club please visit our official website at www.rugbyleaguerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Shame I never saw PNG. Who did they play on the 1987/88 tour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 08/10/2020 at 15:55, BrisbaneRhino said: Shame I never saw PNG. Who did they play on the 1987/88 tour? Their first ever tour match was against the mighty Featherstone Rovers. It was all a bit of an anti-climax for them after that. https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Not so mighty - PNG won that game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 14 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said: Not so mighty - PNG won that game! Mighty enough to beat Australia though. Twice. https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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