Dave T

Avignon does appear to be the place for crowds, although I do think it had higher status games.

The last mid-season international between these teams in Toulouse (2008) got 8.3k. A year later in Paris it got 7.6k. The crowds don't tend to be horrendous considering the organisation.

Lancashire does exist. There are plenty of maps to show where it is.

I mean you can keep dismissing people's point as them not being interested, even ignoring the fact that I've said I've been before to these games, have watched them on tv and would do so again. It doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. I still think it would add no value to the season, and a big factor in that is that I don't believe there is any demand or interest in a Lancs team. You've not countered that, or offered any real benefits.

See my response to Wellsy - maybe the game does need to be more creative if it was to play in this space and create rep teams.

On this point - if you were going to work with an agency to create a new brand, you would probably be more likely to go with something like this. See Northern Superchargers in The Hundred (not pushing that as a good brand btw!), or Southern Brave in that same comp. There may be an argument that if you were going to look to create something new and fresh to fill this space that you wouldn't try and play on the old fashioned War of the Roses piece and you'd use modern names that maybe don't focus on the place names, particularly when one of those place names is largely irrelevant.

The point isn't really about LA boundaries or geeky discussions like that - it's more a point that maybe a reason why this doesn't grip people, is that it doesn't really mean much to people. If we had never ever had Lancs v Yorks, if you think about the proposal, it is bizarre. If your objective was to create an event, create training camps for players to step up into rep squads, and to try and create commercial value, I don;t think anyone in the world would come up with Lancs v Yorks - because quite frankly, it's weird to use Lancashire as any kind of rep team here. People raising the fact that the NW RL teams are not in Lancashire and haven't been for 50 years isn't some pedantic silly argument - it's quite a key reason as to why there just isn't any real kind of hook in for fans this side of the Pennines imo.

No I get that, and I thought there was a lot of good play, but that defences were on top, so there wasn't much champagne rugby. But very enjoyable I agree.

The point about craving more events is an interesting one, and one I do have some sympathy for - but it is telling that IMG want to get rid of Magic Weekend, which is by far the most successful 'event' that we have created to fill this kind of gap. This probably goes back to @gingerjon's point about just serving the same people, and Magic is very much a members on tour kind of event, even when played in new cities. Over the years (since the advent of SL) we've seen: - Expanded World Club - One-off World Club game - Magic Weekend - SL 9's - Summer Bash - Championship 9's - Roses - Exiles - England home matches - England in Oz/USA - Challenge Cup Semi Double Header

Indeed. If you are an RL fan from Wigan, Wire, Saints, Widnes, Leigh etc you are well served by your local club. For rep RL you have England. I see little hook to get behind Lancashire, a county North of all of these towns.

The roses mean nowt to me and I expect anyone younger to me. Aren't you a Leeds football fan as well mate? Maybe the rose is more prominent there?

People understand Lancs, and for some it just translates into North West, but as we've seen with the Hundred, Lancs name ain't the reason they are successful, they are simply the Premier cricket club in the North West and have been for a century and a half. But call them Manchester Originals and they are the same. Lancs RL doesn't have any of this brand identity or recognition, and can't just tap into those people who identify with the county. As I say, I've lived only in Cheshire and Merseyside when living in England in my 45 years. And surely we should be aiming to attract younger people than me.

I disagree that Lancs Cricket brand is based really around the county. They are a strong club that has been around for 150 years and have built themselves up over that time. I don't think anyone would start up a club with that name now. The Lancs point isn't a showstopper, but genuinely think about it - it's weird. This is something that has the challenge of being outdated and the proposal is to use a county name that doesn't include Wire, Saints, Widnes, Wigan, Leigh, Salford etc - pretty much all the places you would play the games, get players from and expect support from. As an idea on paper it's a bit bizarre. If this was a brand new idea, what would the pitch be for it? It would be really odd. I'm a 45 year old bloke and have never had Lancs in my address, but am absolutely the target market for this rep side.

No, they have a brand that they have built for years. In the same way I support Man City despite not being from Manchester. But there is no brand in Lancs RL.

It isn't a technicality. We are trying to appeal to young fans, and most will have no links to Lancashire. It's little surprise it's old men and Yorkshire folk asking for this.

England have played France in mid-season in the UK 3 times in the summer era and twice in France.

How many in Lancashire?

We could lose any kind of game over theast couple of years to be fair!

I thought it was a decent game, but I am surprised to see so many rating it up there with the games of the season. There was a lot of passion, big defence etc. but there was a limited amount of attacking skill on show from both teams imo. For long spells, defences were on top, with a very slow ruck area, and its reflected in the 5 clean breaks that were made.

If we did this, which stadium do you think we'd go for when Lancashire get a home game?

Genuine question. Those that are championing this (and I've already said, i'd certainly watch it on TV and maybe even go if it worked for me) - what do you think good looks like here? Is it a one-off game that gets 10k in Warrington/Saints/Leigh/Leeds/Hudds and passes by with little fanfare or is there genuine hope of it doing more than that/ Because in reality, it hasn't really mattered what we've done in that mid-season space - we've done England internationals, Roses games and we've done Exiles - they all pretty much cater for the same crowd I'd argue. I think then it just comes to personal preference - mine is that England should be given every opportunity to play, and I'd spend far more effort on them than this. I was always disappointed that we didn't capitalise on the Exiles concept (although I hate the name). That first year saw a decent level of promotion, interesting squad selection concept, a lovely kit and a decent first match. True to form we then backed off and half-assed it. My preference would be an England game against whoever - Exiles, France, Wales, possibles etc. before a Roses game. It shouldn't be ignored that the majority of RL teams have no affinity with Lancashire any more.

Which same dead horse are we flogging?

So what do you think it'd do?

I'm not sure why Lancs v Yorks with 8 to 10k is any better than Eng v France with similar? Surely an England game with a proper England camp is better than 2 x Lancs /Yorks camps? I'm not ashamed of Northern roots, but most of us aren't from Lancashire nor have any link to it.

If your results are broadly similar (crowds, commercials, tv etc) then international RL should be a far higher priority than trying to bring something that's died a few times back to life. The Challenge should be making a mid-season international work rather than looking at something like this imo. Let's be blunt, if we stage a Roses match it'll be similar to an international versus France, but it'll reinforce that our sport is for Northerners and others should turn away. If this would draw 20k and big viewing figures you can ride that, but not when it doesn't bring the tangible benefits.