Wakefield Trinity plans submision

29 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

You've had 20 years of the same old stadium cobblers.

 Getting all precious because some of us find yet more drawings rather amusing.....

Its life mate.... if Trin hadn't been so comical over the last two decades we probably wouldn't be sniggering. 

Do you not see where the scepticism is coming from.

It's beyond scepticism - it's bitterness and ill-will.

You are desperate for the club to fail in this.

It doesn't make you look good.

1 minute ago, dboy said:

I can certainly agree that we don't play TV games at Oakwell.

Compared to Belle Vue, Oakwell is a state of the art sports stadium, but that wouldn't be hard

Just now, dboy said:

It's beyond scepticism - it's bitterness and ill-will.

You are desperate for the club to fail in this.

 

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Yes I'm taking the pizz..... but come on.... are you really that precious?

2 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   If the East side is redeveloped then the terracing behind the sticks is just about fit for purpose.But the other two sides of the ground are a disgrace at present.To make the ground something like a modern stadium would cost  8 to 10 million pounds.Lets face it Cas new stadium has little chance of being built so i think the best proposition would be a shared stadium in the Normanton/Altofts area with facilities for sport and education built in to give almost continous use.

A shared stadium makes great sense, but will never happen.

I note a change of tack here too, ready for "if" we ever get the rebuild started..."yeah you've got an nice new East Stand, but the West and South are still ###### - kick them out".

2 minutes ago, dboy said:

It's beyond scepticism - it's bitterness and ill-will.

You are desperate for the club to fail in this.

It doesn't make you look good.

They have failed for the last 20 years on this whats different?

1 minute ago, Robin Evans said:

How do you arrive at this conclusion?

Yes I'm taking the pizz..... but come on.... are you really that precious?

Didn't realise you were taking the P.

Went well over my head.

Just thought you were being a .

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

They have failed for the last 20 years on this whats different?

Honest answer...

Genuine, capable owners.

Plans done properly.

Funding apparently in place.

WMDC apparently implementing a secure S106 on Newmarket enabling development.

WMDC no longer run by Mr Box.

Issue of Manni H (Unexplained Wealth Order) - shines a light on WMDC/Box/Rodney Walker/Yorkcourt = future actions will be scrutinised closely.

If licencing returns then we have significantly more capable clubs than last time - that will be putting fear in incumbents to show things in a better light than reality. Widnes, TO, York, Fev, Newcastle, Fax and London will have far better facilities than Wakey/Cas. The question the sport should be asking is how do we embrace all not cast adrift a few

2 minutes ago, dboy said:

Didn't realise you were taking the P.

Went well over my head.

Just thought you were being a .

Depends on your definition of A I suppose.

If this was my own club I'd take the P. Many trin fans I know - and I know a lot, are themselves  taking the P out of their own club.

I find it amusing. If trin gets an upgrade I'll celebrate that.

If it fails....again, I may well take the P....again!

If some want to get all moody about that, c'est la vie.

To be fair the south end of the stand whilst looks poop serves a purpose. I would've preferred all of the North stand to get a bit of a face lift but beggars cant be chosers.  That leaves the Western Terrace, but then even Headingley has a sub-standard stand. 

The current management are making the best of a poor situation. It may still not come off but it's a genuine attempt to improve, after all the poor stadium only hinders the club and costs more year on year to keep it up to the sub-standard state it is in now.

6 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

If licencing returns then we have significantly more capable clubs than last time - that will be putting fear in incumbents to show things in a better light than reality. Widnes, TO, York, Fev, Newcastle, Fax and London will have far better facilities than Wakey/Cas. The question the sport should be asking is how do we embrace all not cast adrift a few

Make your mind up - capable clubs or facilities?

Wakey are one of only 3(?) clubs that don't run at a loss.

Award winning community dept, successful academy, up's and down's but have had some success on the field, excellent production line of players, fulfilled more SL games than any other club last year...

5 minutes ago, dboy said:

Honest answer...

Genuine, capable owners.

Plans done properly.

Funding apparently in place.

WMDC apparently implementing a secure S106 on Newmarket enabling development.

WMDC no longer run by Mr Box.

Issue of Manni H (Unexplained Wealth Order) - shines a light on WMDC/Box/Rodney Walker/Yorkcourt = future actions will be scrutinised closely.

Actions speak louder than words and as soon as the rebuilt starts going ahead we will know the club are serious, but in the meantime i can't help thinking that this is just another false dawn.

I suspect they have heard a rumour of licensing returning and fear being cut adrift and are trying to buy times, and there is a reason why London are trying to move grounds Think about it.

18 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

They have failed for the last 20 years on this whats different?

If you really had followed the 3 completely different failures over the last 20 years you wouldn't need to ask that question. 

You clearly haven't.

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Actions speak louder than words and as soon as the rebuilt starts going ahead we will know the club are serious, but in the meantime i can't help thinking that this is just another false dawn.

I suspect they have heard a rumour of licensing returning and fear being cut adrift and are trying to buy times, and there is a reason why London are trying to move grounds Think about it.

Mostly nonsense, that.

The club are absolutely serious and committed to the new build; that really is not in doubt.

If it doesn't happen, it won't be because of the club.

Licencing rumours are just that and I'm sure Wakey would be confident of retaining their place - licencing can never just be about your stadium.

I'd kick out any club who don't own their stadium and end up dancing round a soccer club, but there you go!

3 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

If you really had followed the 3 completely different failures over the last 20 years you wouldn't need to ask that question. 

You clearly haven't.

So 3 different excuses then i guess.

They might make some cosmetic changes, at Belle Vue, but Belle Vue will remain a dump, and there will be no new ground and no rebuild of Belle Vue

2 minutes ago, dboy said:

Mostly nonsense, that.

The club are absolutely serious and committed to the new build; that really is not in doubt.

If it doesn't happen, it won't be because of the club.

Licencing rumours are just that and I'm sure Wakey would be confident of retaining their place - licencing can never just be about your stadium.

I'd kick out any club who don't own their stadium and end up dancing round a soccer club, but there you go!

So they haven't been serious before then about a new ground or a rebuild of Belle Vue? interesting.

6 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So 3 different excuses then i guess.

 

Just as I thought.  You "guess".  

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So they haven't been serious before then about a new ground or a rebuild of Belle Vue? interesting.

I don't think any previous regime has been as detailed, realistic, determined and professional, as this one.

I'm not particularly blaming previous regimes for the failures to deliver - it's mostly been external issues...

Durkar plans = Caddick intervened when YCC said they would move (in fact Headingly is only what it is now (Cricket in the main), because of WMDC trying to nick the cricket).

Ossett Queens Drive = never realistic.

Thornes Park = WMDC pipe dream (WMDC asked WT to stop their own plans to be part of the Sports Village).

Newmarket = shyster developer dodging obligations due to unenforceable S106, overseen by Box. Also blame weak Secretary of State demands on developer.

This one?  We wait and see.

Wakefield as a city deserves a better facility than what is currently at Belle Vue and given the council let Yorkcourt build a massive white box on greenbelt they really need to get something back from them. 

I like the direction this is going with redevelopment rather than relocation to somewhere totally out of the city like Newmarket would have been. Though I don't think Belle Vue is brilliantly located, I do think that redevelopment helps keep the soul of the club.

I hope they have plans for future development factored in as part of this, particularly of the West stand which in a pretty tragic ground stands out as the most tragic stand. It would be a shame if modernising the West stand in future wasn't possible because the current plans were unwilling to slide the pitch along to creat more room there for example. One risk of this may be that Belle Vue effectively becomes a 2 sided ground with the new East and North stands whilst the Cabins are torn down and the West stand is left to rot. As whilst the funding appears to be in place for the redevelopment of the East and North, it doesn't seem to be the case for the rest of the ground - and we all know what that is likely to mean... 

Hopefully this is the start of giving the city something to be proud of. Up the trin.

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

One risk of this may be that Belle Vue effectively becomes a 2 sided ground with the new East and North stands whilst the Cabins are torn down and the West stand is left to rot.

Indeed, but let's get the East Stand done first, eh? 

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

They have failed for the last 20 years on this whats different?

I also think it's worth pointing out that, in most stadium developments, there is undoubtedly a lot of fortune that goes alongside the hard work. 

Had the new stadiums at Warrington or St Helens been planned a couple of years later, given that the 2008 recession forced the major supermarkets like Tesco to really rethink the "hypermarket" model that was so critical to the projects at the Halliwell Jones and Langtree Park/TWS, it's not in any way unfair to suggest that those venues wouldn't exist in their current guise. 

Wakefield have a lot of criticism to take, but there is no question that they got shafted by the botched enforcement of a S106 agreement that has been the basis for a lot of new stadia in Super League. 

This development has a good chance of going through because it's probably the least ambitious project they have put forward (it's for the most part, a fairly simple new stand project). I don't mean that in a disparaging sense, but in the sense that Wakefield are pretty much running this project themselves - not beholden to a developer that is exploting a loophole or on a council finding some land to donate to them. 

5 minutes ago, dboy said:

Indeed, but let's get the East Stand done first, eh? 

Yeah I know, but you'd hope with significant money being invested that this wasn't just "it"! 

6 hours ago, PREPOSTEROUS said: 

The current management are making the best of a poor situation. It may still not come off but it's a genuine attempt to improve, after all the poor stadium only hinders the club and costs more year on year to keep it up to the sub-standard state it is in now.

This is a key point, the cost of maintaining sub standard facilities only hamstrings the club further, so why would Wakey want this situation to continue, after all if you want to look at how playing for many years can affect a clubs finances I offer up Odsal for evidence. From my point of view the situation is

1. Wakey know Belle Vue has not been fit for purpose for some time, and have had a number of attempts at developing or relocating

2. They were not blessed with supermarket cash allowing a relocation a la Saints or even Warrington

3. The council has been at best unhelpful, at worst incompetent 

4. The club is run as a tight ship so little spare cash is ever available

5. If they get this redevelopment done great, let’s celebrate an improvement in facilities instead of continually sticking the boot in. If not I suspect the ongoing cost of maintaining the current dump will hamstring the club further, which will be very sad.

7 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Compared to Belle Vue, Oakwell is a state of the art sports stadium, but that wouldn't be hard

Apart from the West stand there's nothing wrong with Oakwell. 

12 hours ago, The Future is League said:

So they hoodwinked the RFL and 20 plus years later they still have a dump of a ground

Wakefield Trinity won the Championship Grand Final which was the culmination of a play off tournament whose stated goal was that the winner would gain a Super League place.

How then did Wakefield “hoodwink” the RFL?

For the record Wakefield Trinity also won the League Leaders Shield that year and were clearly the best team outside SL and possibly already better than a couple of clubs already in SL.

The popular urban myth that Wakefield promised a new stadium is just that, a myth it is untrue, a falsehood often quoted by so called fans of the game who are ignorant of the facts.