War of the Roses (Again)

With people starting to discuss mid season internationals I thought I'd reopen this wound.

Surely with the ever dwindling enthusiasm for internationals in the NH, it's now worth a roll of the dice on this county game.

No reliance on any other federations, the ability to market and sell tickets prior to the start of the season and a genuinely competitive fixture all put this hypothetical fixture above what we're getting this year.

There's no getting around it, England are streets ahead of any other NH team. Let Wales play France annually to further the development of both of those sides.

Yes I know there may be a certain amount of fan apathy especially from the Lancashire side but could fan apathy get any worse than it is?

Let the abuse commence..

35 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

With people starting to discuss mid season internationals I thought I'd reopen this wound.

Surely with the ever dwindling enthusiasm for internationals in the NH, it's now worth a roll of the dice on this county game.

No reliance on any other federations, the ability to market and sell tickets prior to the start of the season and a genuinely competitive fixture all put this hypothetical fixture above what we're getting this year.

There's no getting around it, England are streets ahead of any other NH team. Let Wales play France annually to further the development of both of those sides.

Yes I know there may be a certain amount of fan apathy especially from the Lancashire side but could fan apathy get any worse than it is?

Let the abuse commence..

There is an awful lot of sense in what you are saying.. the only negative is the last bit you mention. If there was a way to get the 2 teams to have that strong fan pull that had proper meaning then absolutely go with it but we just dont have the defined counties that make it work in the minds of the spectators IMHO. However, I do also get what you are saying in that the same fan apathy will probably exist for this mid season international. 

If we could just find something that really pulls at the heart strings for people then we would be on to something, no idea what that is though to be honest.

My position is the same 

If marketed properly and given time there is a chance to 'fish where the fish are'

You get plenty of 'Yorkshire Yorkshire ' chants at some games (the Leeds fans were even singing it in the Grand final two years ago)

I guess the quality of marketing and maybe getting the 'Lancashire' fans to buy in?

Could it be East Vs West instead?

Actually an interesting point is this..

I support NSW in Origin.....I watch and cheer for them and even have a jersey 

I have no connection whatsoever with Australia 

I know Southern fans down here who support Northern SL clubs....they have no connection with the town they support 

If the Roses is a big enough spectacle and well marketed then why couldn't it be the same ? I.e if interest to RL fans outside of the heartlands 

6 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

My position is the same 

If marketed properly and given time there is a chance to 'fish where the fish are'

You get plenty of 'Yorkshire Yorkshire ' chants at some games (the Leeds fans were even singing it in the Grand final two years ago)

I guess the quality of marketing and maybe getting the 'Lancashire' fans to buy in?

Could it be East Vs West instead?

the good side vs the bad side. (yorkshire are the bad side)

1 minute ago, Barry Badrinath said:

the good side vs the bad side. (yorkshire are the bad side)

 

 

Nice countryside though!

Isn't the whole problem with Yorkshire - Lancashire, is that no one really connects with Lancashire anymore? 

You hear lots of chants of "Yorkshire" at various grounds but you would never hear any chant for Lancashire.

I know at youth level we still have a Yorkshire - Lancashire game, and that is probably where it should remain.

So what are we doing differently to the previous 100+ times this fixture was played?

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

So what are we doing differently to the previous 100+ times this fixture was played?

Or the 100+ threads

M62 Challenge :((((

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So what are we doing differently to the previous 100+ times this fixture was played?

well i think you'll find the international game hasnt been in such a god awful state before... 

Club of Origin.

Or Wigan versus the World.

One team selected from current players who started their careers in the Wigan area Vs the rest, if the rest can put a team together, that is.

25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So what are we doing differently to the previous 100+ times this fixture was played?

playing it in london

18 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Club of Origin.

Or Wigan versus the World.

One team selected from current players who started their careers in the Wigan area Vs the rest, if the rest can put a team together, that is.

well if we're going for silly ideas I'd like to bring back my idea of a true "war of the roses" where each county is aligned to either the house of York or the house of Lancaster depending on the earl/duke etc of the county/area where they were born and where that Duke/Earl aligned during the actual war.. obviously anyone from Warwickshire can pick and chose each year and are encourage to pick whichever side they think may win that year. 

33 minutes ago, Click said:

Isn't the whole problem with Yorkshire - Lancashire, is that no one really connects with Lancashire anymore? 

You hear lots of chants of "Yorkshire" at various grounds but you would never hear any chant for Lancashire.

I know at youth level we still have a Yorkshire - Lancashire game, and that is probably where it should remain.

Maybe if we get some yorkshire fans to start breaking into cars with house bricks saying "Lanchsire ####" it could help unite the region and bring some county pride back.

Who knew the Local Government Act would cause such chaos in the RL calendar. I kind of understand people to the west identifying as being from Merseyside, but do people from Wigan/Oldham etc really identify with Greater Manchester? I'm not saying that automatically means they should identify with old Lancashire, more questioning how much it matters at all. Most likely, you'll have some of your club players repping so you'd watch/support on that alone surely? 

I don't know, it might not work but the current mid season rep offerings don't work either. Give it another go I say! 

If I was from Lancashire i don't think I'd want to shout about it either.

It would be good if we could get a game involving the best 34 English players in SL but I don’t think they’d be enough buy in from fans, clubs, players and the media for it to work. 
We need to somehow create a similar situation like Samoa, Tonga etc up here with Wales, Ireland, France, Jamaica and some of the African countries like Nigeria so they can put out competitive teams for mid season competitions 

Nothing on here has convinced me that it isn't at least worth a punt. Like I said, maybe fans wouldn't get behind Lancashire but maybe putting the players in the spotlight rather than the teams is the way to go.

Make the Yorkshire vs Lancashire the headline but really focus in on the rivalries between the players in the marketing.

At the end of the day, fewer and fewer people care about internationals now so let's give a fiery match for neutral fans to enjoy.

Just now, sam4731 said:

Nothing on here has convinced me that it isn't at least worth a punt. Like I said, maybe fans wouldn't get behind Lancashire but maybe putting the players in the spotlight rather than the teams is the way to go.

Make the Yorkshire vs Lancashire the headline but really focus in on the rivalries between the players in the marketing.

At the end of the day, fewer and fewer people care about internationals now so let's give a fiery match for neutral fans to enjoy.

The rivalry is all at club level. You’re more likely to find rivalries within the sides than at their opponents.

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The rivalry is all at club level. You’re more likely to find rivalries within the sides than at their opponents.

Everything has to start somewhere. I know we've done WotR before but this is a new era and if we do it properly, it could be as big as SOO one day.

3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Everything has to start somewhere. I know we've done WotR before but this is a new era and if we do it properly, it could be as big as SOO one day.

So far, your idea is: play it, market it.

The rivalry between NSW and Queensland was real and already had a RL angle. Is it really going to ruin your season if Lancashire lose to Yorkshire?

Plenty of people still connect with Lancashire, including myself even though some folk would have you believe I’ve never lived there having been born (well after) 1974.

I do feel it would be a bit more of a step back though and the hard work has to go in with the other federations to make the internationals work. 

A couple of years ago I fancied it but that was on the basis that it wasn't to replace internationals but to feed in to them and get lads on both sides fighting out for a spot in the England side, much like the academy set up but without knowing a set international calendar, I don't see what the point is. I look at the current picture and if we knew England had a proper series to play in at the end of 2024, then a battle between Micky Lewis and Harry Smith or  Matty Ashton and Tom Johnstone would give those players (and others) something to play for and something to prove. If the players do not have that carrot, then it just becomes a friendly/exhibition. The only other way it works is if somebody sticks some money up for the winner and the players on both sides then have an incentive. 

The Roses is dead. Leave it to rot. 

It would add to making the game look even more parochial. Im a Warrington lad exiled in Leeds - theres zero desire from me to cheer for Lancashire (I was born in Warrington, Cheshire) and zero to adopt Yorkshire because I now live here.

Get a home nations mid season up and running. Start from the bottom and build up (should have done this years ago) Use heritage players initially and RFL have a strategy to grow participation and league structures in the home nations.